FORCED EXPOSURE #7/8, p.28-30+, Fall 1984 ----------------------------------------- SAMHAIN INTERVIEW, By Byron Coley and Jimmy Johnson AT GLENN'S HOUSE, LODI, N.J. 10/27/84 GLENN DANZIG EERIE VON STELLMAN STEVE ZING BYRON JIMMY Glenn: Yeah, we're recording a new 12". It's called Unholy Passion. It will be different than Initium... I know there will be at least two songs that are kinda weird. We do a remake of "All Hell Breaks Loose" -- the way we do it live. Byron: How do you mean, weird? Glenn: Just different than what we normally do. We're experimenting more. It will still sound like Samhain and it will still have a lot of power, and loud and everything... but it's just moving into different areas. Jimmy: More rhythmic stuff? Glenn: There's one song that is... it's really hard for me to explain the stuff the band is doing now because it doesn't fit into any of the categories that everybody is working in right now... it's a definitive sound... Byron: You think it's better than the last one (Initium)? Glenn: I liked the last one but this stuff is kinda different so that's why I would say I like it more. Jimmy: How about this "uneven production" stuff that some guy in D.C. mentioned... Glenn: Oh, you mean Tesco... well, we don't want every song to sound the same. That kinda defeats the purpose of having ten different songs. It's that old punk rock attitude -- every song should sound the same. I don't really think that way -- we're trying to get away from that. Byron: Is it your tendency to lay down all the basic tracks in one session and handle them all real differently? Glenn: I think about production way before I even record a song... about how each one will be... Byron: On Initium it almost sounded like some of the stuff was done in different studios... each song almost had a different ambience. Glenn: It's just the way the song is done... not all the songs were done at the same time. The whole thing is -- when you're producing a song you want to do something different with each one. And that means something has to take a back seat when another thing is pushed up in volume. You can't have everything blasting. When you want certain things to be heard, something else has to come down. "Archangel" has two bass tracks. When we do it live, our guitar player straps on another bass and I put on a guitar. Some people are like, "What are you doing?! Blah blah blah..." Well, those people can go see Johnny and the Hardcores -- don't come see us. If they want the Johnny and the Hardcores' album where everything sounds the same, they they can go buy it... Jimmy: Have you ever played guitar on stage before? Previous to Samhain? Glenn: Well, in other bands before the Misfits... I've played guitar for a long time. Jimmy: How about time-wise? Did you spend a lot more hours recording than with the Misfits? Glenn: Yeah, but in some aspects not really because Walk Among Us took a real long time. When you hear that record -- that was the third time that thing was recorded. The only Misfits thing that was done under budget... I don't know what came in under budget with Misfits stuff. (laughs) Eerie: Nothing. Byron: Over how long was Initium done? Glenn: Well the studio we used (Reel Platinum in Lodi) is always backed up two months in advance. So we'd go in thinking we could finish it up and then we'd run out of time, so we'd have to wait another two months to get more time in the studio. Byron: I was real happy that the speed was back down... Jimmy: Yeah, a lot of that stuff on Earth A.D. was just too much... Glenn: It was just too fast. That's why I was really depressed after that album. I just didn't want anything to do with that band. Some of the stuff on Initium is even too fast for us, so we might re-record some of it and slow it down. Jimmy: How about the musicianship of the band live, is it a lot better than the Misfits? Glenn: Oh yeah, most of the people who come up to me after a show will say, "You're in a real band now", things like that... because he (Eerie) actually plays bass. And he's only been playing since last January ('84). Jerry (Only/Misfits) was playing for how long? And he didn't care about doing fifths or octave notes or runs or anything. He couldn't be bothered doing any of that. Live, sometimes, he didn't really care if he was playing or not. If he forgot where he was he would just let everyone bang on the bass. That was his way of saying "Ill get out of this." Jimmy: Did you start out with the idea of Samhain or was it going to the Glenn Danzig solo project? Glenn: It started out as Samhain. That was the one of the main names that I really wanted... Jimmy: How long did you have that name in the back of your head? Glenn: For a while. I've been studying Samhain for the last two years -- it's something I've always wanted to do, and information on it is real hard to come by and it's expensive when you do come across it -- and I had the song "Samhain" so it felt right. Me and Eerie would always talk about how we weren't really happy with the bands we were in... Eerie: I'd call up and we'd talk for three hours about how things sucked in the band and how they should be better. Glenn: So originally, Eerie played drums and we were going through guitarists and bass players. Eventually though, I got Steve (Zing) from Mourning Noise on drums, and I taught Eerie bass 'cause he had a real good image on stage and stuff. I knew I could teach him bass in a month, it's so easy. Byron: Originally we had heard rumors that you would be moving a couple hours closer to D.C. and be playing with Brian and Lyle. Glenn: That was a long time ago when I was thinking of doing a band with Brian and Lyle and that didn't work out. I only went down to two rehearsals in D.C. and the rehearsals I went to really sucked. Jimmy: Were you working with a drummer? Glenn: When I went down there, they didn't have a drummer. They brought Jeff (Nelson/Minor Threat) in for a while. Jimmy: So they already had the idea for a band and they wanted you instead of the other way around? Glenn: They told me, "We want a real singer." Byron: But it was gonna be mostly their material? Glenn: Originally, they said, "The whole thing you're doing with your lyrics" -- and everything I write about -- "is great." And they came up here and played me some of their songs. And the stuff sounded pretty good. When I got down to D.C. they still hadn't gotten a drummer. As far as a bass player goes we were supposed to get someone like Tim Kerr from the Big Boys. Someone who was really good. And what they did was get Graham from Negative Approach, who's a really great guy, bat as far as being a great bass player... I mean Eerie's better than him right now. So that kinda bummed me out. The original idea was to create this supergroup, basically, and it wasn't. And the songs had changed when I got down there, they were kinda wimpy. Byron: So it was sorta like The 400 (Brian and Lyle's current project) stuff? Glenn: Yeah. And the thing was, there wasn't room in any of their songs for me to lay any phrasing or singing. It was very guitar oriented -- they carried all the melodies... it just wasn't working. I didn't really feel anything with the music. It wasn't doing anything for me. It wasn't making me want to go crazy. Jimmy: Did you plan to go fifty/fifty with their songs and yours? Glenn: I just said, this stuff is not going to fit in with what I've been writing. They were actually writing songs that were starting to sound like Rush... and I hate Rush. Then they got this drummer who is the guy they're using now and who is also in the Meatmen, and I just did not get along with him at all. I don't know... he was just real snooty about music, "I can't do that - it's too simple." Jimmy: That's the guy with the huge set, double bass etc? Glenn: Yeah. He was doing these rolls on the drums like Duran Duran. Going from the little tin thing... Byron: Like Mike Oldfied. Fuckin' cool. Tubular Bells. Glenn: If I wanted to be in a band like that I could form my own and make a million dollars, but I don't wanna do that. I just said, "look, you guys would be better off without me." Jimmy: What's the difference between that and Lyle being in Samhain? Glenn: After those rehearsals, Lyle said he still really wanted to work with me, so I told him I'd fly him up here. The first rehearsal went really great and we already had a show booked. Byron: When was this? Glenn: We started rehearsing about late January '84 and that show was booked for late March at the Rock Hotel. Jimmy: When was the last Misfits show? Glenn: That was Halloween. Me and Eerie already had Samhain going by then... Eerie: When he came back from that show he was so disgusted. He called up the next day and said, "This sucks, let's do it." Jimmy: So you had Samhain and the D.C. thing both at the same time and were indecisive as to which one to pursue. Glenn: I was waiting to see what would happen... as far as a bass player goes we could've gotten almost anyone. Graham wasn't really that important... and Jeff is way better than the guy they've got now as far as a drummer with energy and consistency. The guy they've got now is like a showoff. He's a typical Top 100 drummer, which is what they band sounded like they were gonna end up as. This really unoriginal Top 100 band writing originals... I just said, "That's me ten years ago." Jimmy: So you were never seriously gonna make the move down? Glenn: Oh I was thinking about it -- if things worked out. But I guess they started telling everybody... JImmy: ... and you wanted to get Todd (Swalla/Necros) to drum right? Glenn: The whole idea behind that band was to have people who were really good at what they did -- a kick-ass guitarist, a kick-ass drummer, all the way down the line. And it never worked out that way. Eventually they started settling for this one or that one, and I didn't want to settle. Even if it meant hanging around for a while waiting for someone to finish up their commitments. Jimmy: Did Tim from the Big Boys ever agree to come out? Glenn: No, he listened to the tape that Lyle sent him and just said, "Naw". Which is basically what happened to me. I went down there for two times and said, "This isn't it." That all happened inside a month, because at the time I was still running Plan 9. I had Earth A.D. to move and I was getting ready to put out Die Die My Darling 12", and we were also starting to record the Samhain LP. We were working on "Archangel." Byron: When did you start on that? Glenn: I started "Archangel" August '83. Jimmy: So, before the last Misfits show. Glenn: Yeah. Remember the Santa Monica Civic show? I quit that night. That was June 1983. I told those guys, "That's it." As a matter of fact, I told Henry Rollins that night too. He said, "Wow, I've seen it coming though." Byron: But you had just recorded Earth A.D. the night before, right? Glenn: Yeah, but it wasn't finished because the monitor fell onto the sound board. We didn't really even get started. We recorded the rest of it out here with Spot. Byron: So "Archangel" was you and Eerie recording alone? Glenn: No I did the drums for it and Al Pike (Reagan Youth and Straight Edge magazine) played bass. Al Pike was originally supposed to be in the band, but he wouldn't leave his job and I didn't want to have to go through that again. Jimmy: Was that the first off the Initium LP that you wrote? Glenn: "Archangel" I wrote for Dave Vanian a long time ago and he was supposed to sing it with us playing it and backing him up on the record. That was in 1981. He came over and did a few rehearsals with us in Jerry's garage but it never happened. Then me and Steve did four or five more songs where I played guitar direct with Steve's drums. I then went back and added some bass tracks. Then Eerie went back and overdubbed some additional bass tracks because he had just started playing and we worked from there. And when Lyle said he wanted to do it, he laid some additional guitar overlay stuff. On a lot of songs he refused to play down-stroking. He wanted to play up and down which makes a difference, because when it comes back up you're hitting the end strings first, which is not what I wanted -- it sounded like Atkins or something. (laughs). We've got live reviews of our first show that actually said the band was great, but you could tell that Lyle wasn't really part of the band. Jimmy: How many times did he rehearse with Samhain? Glenn: Three or four times... I would fly him here on weekends and he'd just stay for that night and say, "I gotta go home." And then he started saying that he was getting a lot of shit in D.C. about the spooky image... and he had already applied for college in the fall. So we did the Rock Hotel show and never called him back. And we got Damien from Mourning Noise. Byron: Were you writing all new material for Samhain or were you using old stuff that hadn't been used previously? Glenn: I had stuff that the Misfits could never do and I had stuff I was writing as Samhain was progressing. It was a combination but now it's all new material. Jimmy: How prolific are you now writing-wise? Glenn: Not prolific. I won't even write a song now unless I think it's gonna be pretty good. I'll think about it for quite a while before I even put it on paper. Byron: Do you write on guitar? Glenn: Well, lately, I've been writing a lot of stuff on keyboard. I wrote this song called, "The Hungry End" on piano, which will freak a lot of people out. I've been listening to the "Cough/Cool" record (the Misfits' first, guitarless 45) a lot lately, and it's been really inspiring me. The whole thing is, I want to get the feeling back in this band that I was getting in '77/'78 from being in a punk band. For us it's there, and it seems like for the audience it's there as well, because we have tons of people going crazy for our stuff and we're not a hardcore band. Byron: How many shows have done so far? Glenn: We did a mini-tour for about two weeks all over the midwest. Most of the people said it was great to be able to hear my vocals. And a lot of girls are into Samhain. I think it's a little more sexual and a lot less menacing physically. In Kansas City, there were a whole bunch of thirteen to fourteen year old girls hanging out by Steve's drum set, looking at him going, "I'm in love"... Jimmy: Well how many girls would look at Robo and say, "I'm in love"? Glenn: None. They'd go, "Daddy take me home now." The other night we did the NYU radio interview and I got a call and it was this girl who wanted a date. But I can't go on blind dates, because you might end up with Gorilla Monsoon... Byron: Yeah, that's true, but than at least you could find out some good wrestling anecdotes... so are you going to re-record any of these older things? Glenn: Well, I'm gonna do a special 10" because I've always wanted to do one. It's gonna be Samhain, but it's gonna have "Halloween II" live on the b-side and that's the only way you'll be able to get us doing that. I wanted to do a couple of the Misfits' songs in our set because they fit. We never did "Halloween II" live with the Misfits. We travel with a harmonizer now too se we can get all the background vocals... and "Bloodfeast" and "Death Comes Ripping" were originally Samhain songs and I gave them to the Misfits to make Earth A.D. a full album. "Bloodfeast" is supposed to be a lot slower than it is on that album. Byron: When you were writing stuff for Earth A.D., around that period, was it real specific -- this song is for Earth A.D. and one is for this unnamed project which was to become Samhain? Glenn: No, because most of the Earth A.D. stuff goes back to 1981. We were doing all that stuff back then. We were doing "Queen Wasp." I had "Earth A.D." written, but Googy couldn't play it. We were doing "Demonomania" -- all that stuff was '81/early '82, with the exception of "Bloodfeast" and "Death Comes Ripping" and "Green Hell" -- which was written for the Misfits. "We Bite" is real old, "Die Die My Darling" we recorded at the Walk Among Us sessions. It always took the Misfits a real long time to get records out because Jerry and Doyle were working and they weren't really committed to the band as much as they should have been and things like that. Jimmy: Were those songs written at that speed? Glenn: No, they had this idea that they wanted to play live in the studio, and that's why they wanted Spot to produce, and the songs came out way too fast. I was just not too thrilled with it. It's my least favorite Misfits record. It's alright. I still think it blows away a lot of the other stuff on the market, but for me personally... Byron: For a while weren't you gonna cut it back from an LP to an EP? Glenn: Yeah, right after the Civic thing we were gonna release it as a five song 12", but then we decided to add the four others. Byron: So when's the new 12" gonna be out? Glenn: It was gonna be mid-December, but as we're recording it now, I see that I wanna add more stuff, more overdubs. We're going twenty four track and I really wanna use them up. It will be five songs... Byron: Have you done any foreign licensing on Samhain stuff? Glenn: No, because I still haven't gotten paid from the German guy (Aggressive Rock) for Evilive and Wolfsblood. Byron: The only other foreign thing you have is the Italian Walk Among Us... Glenn: Yeah, Slash did that when it came out. It's on Slash instead of Ruby and it says "The Misfit" on the spine, but otherwise it's the same. Jimmy: Did you always want to do all the colors? Glenn: Yeah, I like colored vinyl. I don't care if anyone else complains. Don't buy it then, no one is forcing anyone to buy it. Byron: And on Initium you did... Glenn: About a hundred on white vinyl and about fifty five on marble, and maybe about 5000 altogether on black so far. Jimmy: How heavy of a touring band do you wanna be? Glenn: Pretty heavy... about two, maybe three times a year. Every four or five months. Byron: So after the 12" you wanna do 10"? Glenn: Yeah, it'll probably be something off the 12" plus a non-LP b-side... just because I wanna do a 10" -- only about a thousand of them. Byron: Are you through with 7" records for a while? Glenn: Yeah, no more 7" records. I have to cut out and glue the sleeves myself and I can't do that for a couple of thousand. Besides, there's no money in them -- I lose money on 7"'s. It's just not the gluing aspect. Byron: What about limited stuff? Glenn: It's not worth it... just the money I would have to spend... and the distributors will take so many more 12"'s than 7"'s. Byron: The world won't have any Samhain singles to file... it's kinda sad... Glenn: The singles market is dead. The pressing plants want a real lot for 7" and it costs a lot for cardstock sleeves instead of shitty paper ones, and if I can't do it right then I don't want to do it. Byron: Do you have any other material besides what's on the LP and 12"? Glenn: I've got a couple of new ones which we're learning now and will probably play on this tour... Byron: Is the Fiend Club still in operation? Glenn: Basically, Plan 9 has a mail order operation, that is what it is... for t-shirts and posters and for Samhain/Misfits LP's. There's no 45's available as of now... I wanna do a box set, limited to a thousand, of the Misfits 45's. Byron: There was talk for a while that you were gonna be doing a magazine... Glenn: I wanted to do a magazine, but I just got bogged down with this band and the label. Basically, with Samhain we wanna get a definitive sound and always keep that power and intensity, and just experiment with all kinds of stuff. Do things that nobody else is doing. Everybody is just doing mediocre bullshit, like all these thrash bands. They're not as good as the bands they're just trying to rip off. All the good thrash bands are gone. All these other bands are stupid. Their lyrics are real dumb. I like real good lyrics, and there's nothing there for me... all these kids just had this thing handed to them. They didn't have to work for it or anything. They think the bands owe them something, just because they bought their record. I don't owe anybody jackshit. I owe you a good show if you come to see us and that's about it. Byron: It's true... it's real weird as to the stuff that's happened with all that... Glenn: It's just these little spoiled kids. They don't have to fight a scene, they didn't have to fight for shows and stuff... Jimmy: It's just become so easy to put out a record and have an immediate following... Glenn: The bad part is that so many reviewers will say anything is good. Like this fanzine, Malice, from Memphis which I've got -- "Everything's great! Everything's great!" And I've heard some of those records and they suck shit. They're real bad. But just because someone sends them a free record it's great. Jimmy: It's always gone on to a certain extent, but it's really proliferating now. Like, if you look at the Flipside fanzine list now, there's about 250 'zines listed, whereas a few years ago there were only about fifteen or so. Glenn: And they're not really fanzines -- they're just one or two pages. Pieces of shit. Byron: ... Just P.O. boxes to get some free records. Glenn: That's what I like about Hard Times. He said that they're not gonna do one paragraph reviews of records, because that's a little bit misleading, and you can't really let someone know what a record's about in one paragraph... I hate those one paragraph reviews like in Maximum Rock & Roll. Jimmy: Well... there are various forms of the one paragraph review. (in defense of F.E.'s unquestioned excellence as regards the form) Glenn: I like the MRR reviews, "This isn't political". What's that got to do with music? Is it a good record? Is the music good? Did it do something for you? They're not the only magazine that's guilty of that. Byron: No, but they've become the standard from for all these other little fuckin' fanzines that are trying to do the same thing... there was this review in MRR that said, "I looked at this and thought it was gonna be a wild record, but it's not, it sounds like The Birthday Party." (laughter) * * = The actual review was from MRR #18 and ran as follows: "The Legend 'The Legend Destroys the Blues' 7". Don't be fooled by the cartoon of the guy in a Ramones t-shirt on the back cover or the frantic maniac on the front cover: This is not wild shit. It's more of a Birthday Party-type minimalist Rock. Well done but not crazed." Glenn: How much wilder can you get? Byron: It's so fuckin' weird... Glenn: Well, people are like that... in the band I'm in now, and even with the Misfits, we always tried to be a couple of steps ahead of what was going on. As far as Earth A.D. goes, I don't know about that. If I had produced ti the way I wanted to, it would have been. This band, I think is a few steps ahead of what's going on. Byron: Right, but I think the obvious connection for a lot of people is still gonna be the Misfits. There isn't a big image change between the two. Glenn: Well, live there is... the blood there (pointing to the cover of Initium) ties into the whole Samhain thing, letting the blood run. Samhain is the pagan Halloween, and is based a lot on the death of the earth -- and everything dies at the end of fall. Byron: So it's an annual thing? Glenn: It's what Halloween is. Christians didn't want the pagans believing in any of the old pagan things, so what they did is they changed the name from Samhain to Halloween, and they changed the name of Christmas and all the holidays. Anyone who didn't listen got killed. Basically, the whole Samhain thing is -- the pagans celebrated the death of earth, and any animal that couldn't survive through the winter, that they didn't have enough food to feed, because winters were tough back then, they had to kill. With Samhain, some sects in Europe would actually kill a king every year and sacrifice him -- the blood would replenish the earth so that in spring they would have great crops again and things like that... the "Halloween" trilogy is based on Samhain. Also, on Samhain, supposedly the dimensions open up because of the shift from the summer and fall into winter and the dead can come back. They used to set places for the dead at the tables. Byron: Yeah, I was wonderin'. 'Cause when I first saw it, it was written out like it was just the name of a guy. Glenn: It's really pronounced "Sow-win". It's Gaelic. You really see the difference between Samhain and the Misfits when you see the lyrics. Also, with the next record -- a lot of it is against organized religion. Religion is good, but not what they've done with it now. If I say I hate Catholics, or I hate Jews, or Protestants, etc., it's not the individual that I hate -- the people who are of that faith -- but it's the people who practice that as a way of life. I don't like those people. Like the Right-to-Lifer's and the people who want to mingle church and state. I really hate that. Byron: Would you say that you're religious though? Glenn: I'm a very religious person, but I wouldn't pray to a saint or a pope. Basically, whether you believe in god or not, there's probably just one supreme power -- that's what I believe, anyway -- and that's who you pray to. There are religious atrocities, like the Catholics just eradicating races of people -- more people than Hitler did -- just because these people's sole purpose was to be one with god and to the Catholics that was heresy. It's annoying that people always single out Nazis, or this and that, and never mention any of the religious movements in this country. Do you know how many people would be killed if the church was mingled with the state? Anybody who didn't believe in "their god", their form of religion, would be forced over. It's happened before and it can happen again. This band, lyrically, is more heavy duty. Byron: There always seemed to be a comic book element to a lot of the earlier stuff. Glenn: Yeah, that's gone. Eerie: This is more real life stuff. Glenn: If someone sat down and really looked at the lyrics to the Misfits' stuff they could see what's going on and could tie the connections. This is just a more real band. Byron: Are you thinking of doing any video stuff? Eerie: Yeah, but not any performance stuff. It will be all storyline to a song. Glenn: We're gonna do "Samhain". I might do one for "Initium". "Unholy Passion" will probably be real sick if we do it, but that's further down the road. Byron: How soon will that be? Glenn: Well, we'll be back from the tour in December and we're not going to tour during the winter because of the bad weather. So we'll have until April or May as a layoff period. We're gonna record and release a second LP then, so we'll have plenty of time to do stuff. Byron: Is there more material you recorded for Initium that hasn't come out yet? Glenn: No, that's all there is. That narrative beginning thing, "Initium", me and Eerie did that in his room on a four track cassette recorded, which is pretty wild. Byron: So are you gonna be playing any keyboards, Glenn? Glenn: Yeah, there're some keyboards on the new 12". We added a lot of stuff to this record -- it's gonna be really full. We're into the idea that a studio album should be different than live. The power should still be there in the studio, but you've got more tracks to play with, so do it. Make it an interesting record -- layers and layers of stuff. Byron: So you wouldn't take the keyboards with you live? Glenn: We might eventually. Not right now, but maybe for the spring tour, in about May. Not a real keyboard, like an organ, it would be a DX7, which patches in sounds like a cello or bells or whatever. And it would only be for stuff from the album, which means a little overlay here or there. It's nothing major in any song. Any of this is just something we're adding to a killer song. It's not that this whole song is a keyboard thing with us going, "La La La". Byron: Now wait a second. You just told me you were listening to "Cough/Cool" a lot. That's a keyboard record. Glenn: Yeah, but that's not a "La La La" song. It's a keyboard song with fuzz. That's because we didn't have a guitar player in the band. Everybody was into Yes, Led Zep, and Queen... Byron: You played guitar though. Why not on it? Glenn: I don't know. I didn't have a guitar. I only had this thing. (picks up an old semi-hollow Danelectro) Eerie: Oh, you got a bottom string now. Byron: The truth is out. That's why you didn't play guitar... Glenn: I normally write on four strings -- the top four -- then I added a fifth one, now I finally added the last E string. Byron: I think you could take that guitar out with you. You could do a little sensitive acoustic number. (laughter) Glenn: No... one of the things I don't like is that a lot of people, in their strive to be different, are just reverting to the past. Like the Husker's Zen Arcade LP and a lot of other people always talking about the Velvet Underground and poetry... yeah, when I was in high school I was listening to the VU and getting shit for it. I was reading all the poetry back then. Where were you eight to ten years ago? It's just so stupid. I don't like reversion. Things go forward -- don't go back. You can look at your roots or your past and say what it would be like now, but not this regression. Music should be expanding, going further. Byron: But it's like you said, history repeats itself. It's fuckin' true. Musical history is the same thing. Glenn: Yeah, but it should have a quality that relates to now. You shouldn't listen to a record and say, "Is this Crosby, Stills, and Nash?" Byron: Or is it Memorex? Glenn: No. It's Husker Du... it should have something about now and maybe modern technology as far as recording goes. Byron: With the band live, have you run into a lot of people yelling for Misfits' stuff? Eerie: Yeah, but it started to taper off real quick. Glenn: Think of some good questions. Something weird... Byron: Um, what's Tesco's sperm taste like? Glenn: I don't know... he doesn't have any.